I use to work for the company from November last year to April this year. Sam recruited me as "adelaide state manager of 8your8 web design" which was a shelf "company" that did websites. Sameer Kapoor recruited me after my school nearly decided to use his after party service, thinking Sam was a chill guy I kept him on FaceBook and he offered me a job. He promised me that I could make real money working on commission. Just to clear up, at the time I had just finished high school, this was my first job EVER and I didn't know better. Sam convinced me to work 3 and a half months unpaid work. Afterwards I was put on $200 a week !!!
I was also the Network Administrator for the web server that sam hosts his sites on so I know all about his shelf companies such as yoursocial.com, yourformal.com, 8your8.com (which closed down because he ripped off customers) – he since reopened his web design business as tuvwebdesign.com. He also runs a website called yourprogrammer.com and yourdezign.com – your dezign is a website where freelance graphic designers sign up and they get given a trial project and if they do well they get “paid work” however in my time there very few people (3 I recall to my knowledge) ever got paid work and later on they ended up not getting paid by the company.
I use to have to deal with the complaints of not getting paid and how their artwork were used on the 8your8 clients websites unpaid. One of my duties, which I regret now that I know the REAL Sam. – I use to have to call up and interview designers and sike them up for a free project. I never knew what happened after the trial work was done, whether they got more projects I didn’t know – Which was why it took me so long to catch on to what was going on.
Before I left the company a designer by the name of Amanda joined the company to work as a graphic designer from QLD, she was only a few months older than me (19) and I heard within the last weeks that she had been owed at least $3000 for her work when Sam stopped calling her or responding, basically ignoring her. Now a 19 yr old’s faith has been ruined because she trusted Sam. To Sams credit he is very good at getting people to trust him, he convinced me that I should work, work, work and he pressured me into staying back to as late as 11pm on some nights (remembering how I struggled to catch the last tram)
And most days when I left around 7.30pm (getting home at 8.30) Sam would call me and ask me to watch over the overseas programmers in Nepal. Who at the time I didn’t realise that they hadn’t been paid for 3 months - yet because of their kind nature in their culture they continued to work because they were working for a outsourcing company that requires them to work, even though they only get paid when the client (Sam’s company) pays them.
During my time there I ended up wearing myself out to the point where I was depressed and sick because I worked all day in an office (usually by myself and the “emailers”) and working late til 7 then going home and working for another hour at least until the programmers logged off at 5pm their time.
Part of my role as “state manager” was to interview e-mailers who would come in and send out commercial e-mails advertising the 8your8 web design by going through the yellow pages. Being 18, just out of school no previous work experience I was asked to interview people and accept anyone who wanted to work on commission only.
The whole idea behind the e-mailers is that according to Sam the e-mailers don’t stick around long, usually they work a week and then they never show up. And those e-mails that they sent out during the time if a hot sales lead comes through, they don’t get the commission – but I get it. But even with the commission - I still never got paid. In my time with the company I ever got paid for 1 sale of $74 even though I had gathered at least 15 sales. And that $74 that I earnt the e-mailer was never paid, and sam made up some excuse why she wasn’t allowed to get her pay.
Note: I was given 5% of each sale that an e-mailer made. I got 15% if I made a sale and I got the 15% if an e-mailer quit. Sam encouraged me to make people quit – which I never had it in me to do (coz I’m not an a**)
A few things happened during my time there where I whitnessed people getting ripped off including clients of 8your8 – which I had to take all the abuse and angry phone calls on Sams behalf because he was “busy” even though it turned out that sam never showed up for meetings with the clients, never returned calls, lied about why their work wasn’t done.
And I’m not 100% if this is illegal but when you do formals and after partys there is a law that stops conflict of interest. Example if I was a student and my idea was to convince my school to go through a company to get a formal/after party everyone has to be fully aware (by law) that you are getting paid commission for getting the sale. Because your conflicting interest so you can get money. Which is illegal (I’m not a lawyer btw) But apparently it can be looped through if the student comes to work for the company for a week and gets paid for “working for them” but even so they have to WORK in to get a commission for a sale…… that just doesn’t sound right.
One designer did work for the company and sam sent out a design brief to her but he forgot he sent it out to her and this designer called back asking for her money and Sam said that he never gave her that task (knowing he did – because theres no way she would of know that we did formals) I checked and sam had sent her a design brief. I told Sam and he said it doesn’t matter and I was on a 3 way phone call between this designer, myself and Sam and she said that she would take legal action and sams response was “go ahead” Sam later explained to me that no one would go to court over $600.
The next week, knowing that things weren’t right I didn’t get paid so I questioned Sam because I needed the money for the easter weekend and he said he put the money in (even though it was 4 days late) and I went to town and overdrafted my card and I called him and he said “oh I will put the money in tomorrow but you wont get it til Tuesday coz of easter”
It wasn’t the first time he lied about putting the money in my account.
He use to impersonate his accountant and send e-mails to me on why my money hadn’t been paid (some excuse) and one incident (being the worse) sam said that he didn’t pay me to teach me a lesson because apparently I wasn’t doing my job properly.
One of my clients of 8your8 paid $7k for a website for his business and it wasn’t even working at all. So I got a phone call from the client asking if I can come down to see him because Sam didn’t make the trip to come visit him.
So I went down there, expecting to be abused and I sat down with the guy – which sam told me that he might abuse me because hes angry. Ended up sitting down with the guy and I told him the truth and he asked me what I was getting paid and I said $200 and he offered me a job and I took it.
After I left I wanted to get my money, I asked him to pay me and he refused.
While I’m at the subjects of e-mail: I feel I should back up my claims with proof!!!
This email was sent over the easter weekend (my break) – keep in mind sam always use to call me in the middle of the night.
Michael, As i said before you are a site manger.
Not being able to contact you is a absolute joke.
Your waning comes form the pathetic mistake you make on tfaa.org.au
You pointed the domain to tapaa.org. When you should have moved tfaa.org.au to tfaa.org
Now this is your first warning as a system adviser. If you cant come to the challenge perhaps move from the company is best.
Sammy Em
Project Manager
That designer above who sam basically said “go ahead” to her suing him. After I left I got forwarded a copy. Basically after I left Sam claimed that I had lied and stolen stuff and said it was my fault that he sent the design brief and he forgot…… lol
Here it is:
Hi Renee,
I got forwaded anonymously from a member of the staff an email from what Sam sent you earlier.
I quit the company officially today and I just wanted to let you know sincerely from the bottom of my heart that what he wrote to you is a lie.
I can prove it to.
Remember that 3 way phone call we had? If you recall he said basically we got your design, we saw it but didnt like it so we wouldn't use it. Or something along those lines in Sam's e-mail to you he basically said that
Also the email asking him to do the project wasn't done in my writing it the e-mail of the task doesn't sound like me plus I didnt use an images in the e-mails I send out.
The truth what happened was after we finished that 3 way conversation is he asked me to go find the e-mail and resend it to sam so he could take a look. I did that and Sam said the design was to 'american' he called up a designer on a three way later, or might of been the next day and asked Amanda to pretty much copy your design. He didn't say to copy 'exactly' but he said to take the key ideas.
I'm also attaching a letter/email that I had planned on sending to everyone in the company on the reasons why I quit. And if you compare the time stamps of when you got this email and when you got sams then you would know that it would of taken me a lot longer to write an e-mail up and fake it.
I swear I'm not lying, I'm 18 and my letter proves how much respect I have for other people. I never stole your design or anything, why would I? I couldnt start a prom night business. And since he already runs yourformal.com and yourafterparty.com as well as your18th.com, your16th.com etc etc I think you would know whos being honest.
Truth is Sam didn't recall ever sending you the design brief, he also gave it to Amanda who from last Monday started working as a full time designer.
Please read the attach quit.doc file. I had planned on BCCing you but they said they were going to pay me so I was going to hold off.
And the reason why I think Sam had sent you that email is because I told Rocky (whos like a business partner of sams) why I quit and it was because I wasnt getting paid and the programmers and I also spoke of you briefly which rocky only knew half of the story of) I reckon he must of spoken to sam and came down on him with a ton of bricks so this story came up.
Sam didnt realise how good of a designer you were until I forwarded him your design but then it was too late.
I guess it isn't supprsing if you think about it, that he would do something like this after the way he treated you over the phone. Sam didn't count on me getting a copy of the e-mail.
Look, I'm sorry for going on and on, I just hate when people make up lies.
If you want me to call you, please let me know with your number so we can have a chat.
I want to clear my innocence
Regards Michael
Sent: Wednesday, April 27 12:42 AM
To: Renee Hazeldine [[email protected]]
Attachments:
Hi Renee,
I have seen the design email, and yes we did send the email, and its only fair that we make payment to you.
I apologies about my manner over the phone Michael told me something different. He sent the email. Then deleted it . then said it was never sent.
Well he was our manager who has stolen some information/ property of ours. So i was going by he's word. But we wont take anything from a lier and thief. I apologies for the confusion and hope that you can work further with us. We will make payment to you and accounts will contact you for further information.
you are in the middle of a massive story that has broken, and you are the victim. I apologise sincerely our director who usually does not talk to anyone will contact you to. She feels disgusted on Michael's behaviour. He has opted to talk badly about our company and we are taking it further with our lawyers.
Not only that we are pre suing criminal charges for the interracial property he took, was against the law.
Regards
Sammy Em
National Manager
YourDezign
As a note: At the time when I discovered the work was received and read by sam I took a screenshot and I also attached proof that he sent the brief out.
After I left I attached my last invoice:
from Michael Carter [email protected]
to Account Department
date Wed, Apr 27 at 10:57 AM
subject Re: My personal email
mailed-by gmail.com
hide details Apr 27
Hi, I haven't received such attachment.
Please pay outstanding invoices and provide the receipt.
Regards
Michael
From: Accounts Department
Date: 4 May 5:52:31 PM ACST
To: Eduardo Saverin
Subject: Payment
Michael we do agree to pay you. however, Sioly was a contracted that was part of Michael Carter ABN, and we still have not received anything we have paid for.
We are holding the payment until we get the project that we paid for. We paid over $700 to him for nothing. If the project is not received we will keep or money and you can keep the programming.
Nygn Yu
My last response:
Hello Nygn
I trust you got my previous e-mail and you cooperate by Wednesday without me having to take actions further, which would be of great regrettable consequence to your company.
I hope you and Sam realise that I have no intention of backing down from this. Sam has a history which of not keeping to his word and making up excuses and lies to get his own way and thinks taking advantage of peoples generosity by using them is going to get him further in the business world.
I trust you will encourage him to do the right thing, after all with a reputation that you have with working with young people - it wouldn’t look good for you.
If Sam wishes to make an appointment with me to resolve the issue in person outside of court and/or before the situation escalates, he is more than welcome to do so at a time most suitable to me.
Many thanks, have a good day
Michael Carter
Australian National Sales Manager
XXXXXXX Pty Ltd
Hi Nygn
I cannot contract people under a sole trader unless myself and Sioli have signed a contract between us. or that I signed saying that I would be held accountable. Besides at the end of the day I wasn’t the person or business enterprise paying Sioli. It’s your own fault that you paid Sioli $700, his wage was a weekly wage, not project based and as far as I am aware you have all the code he has done leading up.
On another note Sam had said to me he was going to dismiss Sioli using the action plan of telling him to keep taking two weeks break, continuously as an attempt to remove Sioli in what would be considered an unethical and dishonest manner of doing so.
Sioli (prior to this discussion with Sam) said he hadn’t been paid by Sam. So as far as the law or myself is concern his work that he did for you is between you and him. So please leave me out of it because I do know my legal rights.
Michael Carter ABN? Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe I work as a Sole Trader contracted to your company for the hours worked and on commission. You said you are holding my money from me until this said project which is apparently supposedly to be under my name is completed.
This is a joke.
It’s not my problem that you paid Sioli $700, if you can’t keep track of the money you paid Sioli then maybe you should hire a more suitable accountant for the role.
I had $400~ due as commission in sales that is in accordance to my agreement which have been paid in full and completed. I don’t see how my sales commissions had anything to do with Sioli or what he got paid or what he did. Please stop making ridiculous statements. You are an accountant Nygn I don’t know how your workplace laws in Singapore match up to Australia’s laws but we have laws that protect workers from these outrages accusations and nonsense from companies.
Time and time again, lie after lie myself and Sioli have been used by the company. I worked for three months unpaid for my work, having someone working full time for $200 a week in Australia full time plus doing the ridiculous overtime that I did is joke on my behalf even, because no one would do it.
It is disturbing that anyone would raise an eye browl with me asking for my money that I have rightfully earn’t. If Sam wasn’t happy with Sioli’s work, or mine for that matter he had every right to dismiss us. He didn’t so he lives with that decision and any consequences that may be of the outcome.
As a final note I have a lot of people supporting me and providing me with financial and legal support. I wish to ‘shake hands and walk away with a clean handshake’ but your making the situation very difficult. If your company just paid their staff ON TIME and what they were owed instead of making up pathetic unethical and now lawful excuses to keep commission and wage profits from staff and kept your clients happy by providing them support in accordance to what they paid. Then everyone would be able to go home happy.
On a personal note, I am working in a very similar circumstance that I was in whilst working with your company. I still only get paid $200 a week and this time I have no commission payments. However so far I’ve been paid on time, not abused or used and all of our clients are happy.
Obviously, if I was after financial gain I would of stayed with your company even though I was unhappy with the company’s and Sam’s unethical behaviour in the way they conduct business. Money isn’t the problem, it’s Sam’s attitude.
I am giving you until Wednesday 18th May to pay my outstanding invoices I will take action further.
Fix your mess or it’s going to get messy.
Many thanks, have a good day
Michael Carter
Reply Reply to all Forward
Reply
Michael Carter to accounts, steve.birchbach
show details May 16
- Hide quoted text -
Hello Nygn
I trust you got my previous e-mail and you cooperate by Wednesday without me having to take actions further, which would be of great regrettable consequence to your company.
I hope you and Sam realise that I have no intention of backing down from this. Sam has a history which of not keeping to his word and making up excuses and lies to get his own way and thinks taking advantage of peoples generosity by using them is going to get him further in the business world.
I trust you will encourage him to do the right thing, after all with a reputation that you have with working with young people - it wouldn’t look good for you.
If Sam wishes to make an appointment with me to resolve the issue in person outside of court and/or before the situation escalates, he is more than welcome to do so at a time most suitable to me.
Many thanks, have a good day
Michael Carter
Australian National Sales Manager
XXXXXXX Pty Ltd
Hi Nygn
I cannot contract people under a sole trader unless myself and Sioli have signed a contract between us. or that I signed saying that I would be held accountable. Besides at the end of the day I wasn’t the person or business enterprise paying Sioli. It’s your own fault that you paid Sioli $700, his wage was a weekly wage, not project based and as far as I am aware you have all the code he has done leading up.
On another note Sam had said to me he was going to dismiss Sioli using the action plan of telling him to keep taking two weeks break, continuously as an attempt to remove Sioli in what would be considered an unethical and dishonest manner of doing so.
Sioli (prior to this discussion with Sam) said he hadn’t been paid by Sam. So as far as the law or myself is concern his work that he did for you is between you and him. So please leave me out of it because I do know my legal rights.
Michael Carter ABN? Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe I work as a Sole Trader contracted to your company for the hours worked and on commission. You said you are holding my money from me until this said project which is apparently supposedly to be under my name is completed.
This is a joke.
It’s not my problem that you paid Sioli $700, if you can’t keep track of the money you paid Sioli then maybe you should hire a more suitable accountant for the role.
I had $400~ due as commission in sales that is in accordance to my agreement which have been paid in full and completed. I don’t see how my sales commissions had anything to do with Sioli or what he got paid or what he did. Please stop making ridiculous statements. You are an accountant Nygn I don’t know how your workplace laws in Singapore match up to Australia’s laws but we have laws that protect workers from these outrages accusations and nonsense from companies.
Time and time again, lie after lie myself and Sioli have been used by the company. I worked for three months unpaid for my work, having someone working full time for $200 a week in Australia full time plus doing the ridiculous overtime that I did is joke on my behalf even, because no one would do it.
It is disturbing that anyone would raise an eye browl with me asking for my money that I have rightfully earn’t. If Sam wasn’t happy with Sioli’s work, or mine for that matter he had every right to dismiss us. He didn’t so he lives with that decision and any consequences that may be of the outcome.
As a final note I have a lot of people supporting me and providing me with financial and legal support. I wish to ‘shake hands and walk away with a clean handshake’ but your making the situation very difficult. If your company just paid their staff ON TIME and what they were owed instead of making up pathetic unethical and now lawful excuses to keep commission and wage profits from staff and kept your clients happy by providing them support in accordance to what they paid. Then everyone would be able to go home happy.
On a personal note, I am working in a very similar circumstance that I was in whilst working with your company. I still only get paid $200 a week and this time I have no commission payments. However so far I’ve been paid on time, not abused or used and all of our clients are happy.
Obviously, if I was after financial gain I would of stayed with your company even though I was unhappy with the company’s and Sam’s unethical behaviour in the way they conduct business. Money isn’t the problem, it’s Sam’s attitude.
I am giving you until Wednesday 18th May to pay my outstanding invoices I will take action further.
Fix your mess or it’s going to get messy.
Many thanks, have a good day
Michael Carter
Since I left I’ve had 8your8 clients come to me, one client being ripped off with a site that cost him $21k up front, and another few smaller sites as well.
I’m sorry if my story *cough* essay *cough* doesn’t flow but there was a business partner in Adelaide (who I am close with now) who use to be best mates with Sam, the other guy has stories after stories of being ripped off but it’s not my place to tell.
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